All is not well in Portland, Oregon

Pastor Matt Hennessee addresses 62 straight nights of violence, racial reconciliation, and bridging the gap between protesters and law enforcement. 

Full transcript: 

David Brody  0:07  
And welcome everybody to The Pod's Honest Truth with David Brody. Hope you are well. I will say this: all is not well in Portland, Oregon. And that's what we're going to be discussing today. We all know about Portland's 62 straight nights of violence. I didn't say peaceful protests. I said violence. Rioters, anarchist, you name them, they're there. And they've been causing mayhem in Portland and of course federal agents, as we know, are in the city, and of course, that has made the tension and situation even more vulnerable and tense. So, we are going to discuss all of that today. Our guest on the podcast, Pastor Matt Hennessee. He's with Vancouver Avenue First Baptist Church right there on the front lines, an African American pastor trying to bridge the gap, right there on the streets of Portland. He's going to share his message for racial reconciliation in that city. Not to mention, what in the world that city, his city does as it relates to this standoff between rioters and federal agents, and by the way, that's right. I call them rioters. Enough with the media's peaceful protesters. Folks, when you've got, when you're setting fires, and when you're trying to burn down a federal courthouse, this just in, you're not a-- you're not a peaceful protester, okay? You're an anarchist, you're a rioter. It's just ridiculous. I'll be honest with you gets me extremely frustrated and that's why I pause because I've just got so much frustration built in, but we're going to discuss all of that with Pastor Matt Hennessee today on The Pod's Honest Truth. Quick reminder here, don't forget, we've got Number of the Day and that is Scott Rasmussen's podcast where he breaks down poll numbers here on JustTheNews.com. It's a great podcast to kind of get your day going to understand how the polling works out there. Also, John Solomon Reports and Sharyl Attkisson Podcast, all on the Just The News platform. Of course, we are on the platform as well. And we will have the interview with Matt Hennessee coming up next on The Pod's Honest Truth. 

And Welcome back, everybody, to The Pod's Honest Truth with David Brody. Time now for our interview with Pastor Matt Hennessee from Vancouver Avenue, First Baptist Church in Portland, Oregon, the scene of those horrific protests, basically in essence, I call them protests, but they are violent protests. In an essence, you've got anarchists and rioters trying to burn down the federal courthouse in Portland. And you know, Matt Hennessee has been there in Portland for a while. He has really taken social justice and made it essential theme and a big emphasis of what he does there in the city of Portland. And there's just-- his list is long. I mean, he's worked intently with a group of men to reduce gang violence in Portland. He's actually worked with law enforcement in the past against, basically, their efforts have reduced crime since 2011 by over 50%, because he deals with the police and deals with the African American community there. He is an African American pastor. I had a chance to meet him for the first time actually, about a week ago. Heard him speak and I said, I've got to get him on the podcast. So, here he is today, talking about the way forward in Portland, especially when it comes to the church and racial reconciliation. Pastor Hennessee, thanks for joining me here. I really appreciate it.

Matt Hennessee  3:46  
Thank you so much, David. It's great to be with you and with all of your viewers as well.

David Brody  3:50  
Well look, throughout all of the chaos that we're seeing in Portland, of course across the country, you really have been, and I know you're not the only voice of reason, but you've been a voice of calm and reason, all from a biblical perspective. And I'm curious if you could share your heart about what's happening in your city, what you've seen there in Portland. And what is the I mean, I'll say the word 'solution' but you know, I tell you what, this is not something where you draw up three things in a row and it just all poof disappears. Tell me a little bit about what you've been experiencing there.

Matt Hennessee  4:28  
Yeah. David, thank you. The-- it's very, very difficult when you think about the genesis of this uprising has actually occurred since the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis. And needless to say, that situation, the 8 minutes 46 seconds of a knee on this gentleman's neck and people around the police officer, begging him to stop, as well as Mr. Floyd himself. And the look on this officers face which is never changed, was never moved, was a metaphor for what racism and injustice really looks like. And it sparked, as you know, and your viewers know, a revolt all over the nation and literally the world, saying that the time has come for racial injustice to be over for set-- for issues of race and injustice to be reckoned with. And my feeling has always been this is our country's unfinished work. And so therefore, people have taken to the streets and they've been in the streets for whatever since then. So, it's been more like almost 60 days. The peaceful demonstrations that have occurred have really been focused on police reform, and saying that we need a new narrative when it comes to police reform. What's been really difficult is the violent acts that occur late in the evening, early in mourning, to burn down buildings, to throw firecrackers, to use lasers, on police officers and things of that nature. And that's been very, very dismaying because, that one of the things I called for in our city was a moratorium on violent demonstration because we needed to understand what was, what does it take to cause the violence to end. And we were not ever clear about what that was. And some of the peaceful demonstrators let me know that their concerns were the same as those who were peaceful. And therefore, it turned out to be and it still is a situation that was beginning to die down. And then when the federal people started coming in it just make things worse. And so we're in a situation right now where what we're trying to do because, David, as you know, there's, as you elluded to, there's no one solution. But I believe, faithfully, that God's hand is over all this and quite frankly, that is the hand that we call on as a church, as a body of believers to say, much like in 1 Chronicles 20, Josephat, didn't have a clue what to do when he heard these armies were headed his way. But the Word of God says that God says that Josephat had looked up to the heavens, and he said, 'Lord, we don't know what to do, but our eyes are on you.' And it was the hand of God and the voice of God that returned the message that I believe he's returning to us in Portland. Number one, keep on praying. Number two, recognize that I'm not asleep. Number three, go down to the battlefield and stand back and watch the hand of God. Do what the hand of God does. And that is when it looks like there's no solution, God is the one that has all the solutions. 

David Brody  8:06  
Hmm, that's wonderful. I 100% agree. We never know exactly how this is all going to shake out in the end, but we trust God for that purpose.

Matt Hennessee 8:14

Yes.

David Brody 8:16

Let me ask you, you're there on the ground, you know, I'm sitting here in a, you know, Washington DC suburbs studio, so, what do I know? But I'm curious. This is the way it's been portrayed and tell me what you think. You've got the peaceful protesters they're the majority of the folks there and they're peacefully assembling for a righteous cause. Systemic racism, racial injustice, police brutality, all of that, and then there are the folks that are, let's call it violently assembling, the anarchist, if you will. One anarchist spoils the whole bunch, if you will, instead of an apple, right. You've got those folks. And then you have the federal agents coming in which exacerbate the situation? Is that kind of how you're seeing this exactly?

Matt Hennessee  9:05  
Yeah, I think so, David. What I would say is that I have chosen not to label the violent protesters only because I don't think that name calling helps us. But what I do believe is that we have behaviors that are either acceptable or not acceptable. And in America, we have a protection about freedom of speech. And I believe that it's important for us to honor freedom of speech, as I've said, to many of the protesters out there who are peaceful. I said, you can be out here until, you know, 24 hours, but when you see the damage that those who are violent have done in terms of defacing buildings and literally setting fires and requiring there to be a fence put up in front of the Justice Center. That's very difficult, but you painted the picture correctly. What's really tough about the federal agents coming in is that they are using practices that are not practices by our own Police Bureau. They are not coordinating with our own Police Bureau. They are making their own decisions and the way that they are doing their work on the street with rubber bullets and tear gas and things like that literally flies in the face of what we expect on the street. And so it's really us, we're working hard to say, how can we work with you from an exit strategy so that we might continue to try to manage this in the way we need to manage this locally?

David Brody  10:46  
That's interesting. So, what do you make of that criticism that is coming against, you know, I don't want to make this political about Democrats and Liberals and Conservatives, but the truth of the matter is, you know, in Portland, you know, running, it's run more by, you know, Liberals and Democrats. And folks in Washington, the conservatives will say, well look, if they had just not put up with this and and quelled it, but they're allowing it like in Seattle, the cops, they're allowing this to go on. And so there's a feeling like, well, you can't, you have to have law and order. And that to me goes to a Biblical concept of both law and order, and compassion and the balance between the two. And I think that's been the struggle here, at least it seems.

Matt Hennessee  11:28  
Yeah, I think that's right. It has been a struggle, and I do believe that well, and I think you so recently did a beautiful job of making it clear, this should never have been politicized in the first place. 

David Brody  11:41  
Right. 

Matt Hennessee  11:42  
This should not be about Democrats, Republicans or Independents. It really should be about human life. It should be about why is it that we have so many black men whose breath, black and brown men, who've lost their life on the street, who are unarmed by police officers. That's really what this is all about. Why is it that we still have a racial marriage that is not working the way it should. And so, therefore, all of these things have distracted from the message of let's get the real work done. And we have in this state, determined as I and others lead the ecumenical and interfaith circles to say, we really want to do the work of racial reconciliation. That is where we want to focus. And we want to work on police reform, and work together to bring about a better narrative for the future. And our goal is to really do that. And I think that I recognize again, that when things look at how to control, somebody feels like they need to come in and create control. And my sense is that I honestly believe that, like anything else, when you get cut, it takes awhile, even with a bandaid, takes a minute before it really heals. And in my view, we are in the healing process. But on the way to healing, there are some really, really difficult things that occur and more has occurred than we expected. But the big message is: sending in federal troops does not help a situation at all. And it's very important that there's a way for them to exit so that we can get back to the business of how we work with our community, with our with our community in a really wonderful way to cause Portland to be the Portland it's always been.

David Brody  13:39  
I think the question then becomes if the federal agents leave because they're making the situation worse, then what happens? What guarantee do city officials, church folks like yourself have that the folks that started the burning and the loot-- I'll not say looting, but the burning and a lot of frustration in the first-- the violent acts in the first place, will stop? I mean, there's no guarantee that they're going to stop and then the federal agents leave. And then what happens? That's kind of the concern.

Matt Hennessee  14:07  
No, I think that's fair. David, here's the thing before the federal agents got here, the group that was creating issues at night was about 300 at the most, 2 or 300. 

David Brody  14:18  
Okay.

Matt Hennessee  14:19  
Federal troops came in, and the numbers were dwindling down, even in peaceful demonstrations, demonstrators. But when the feds came in, the crowd swelled to five to 10,000, just as a result of their being here.

David Brody 14:33  
Got it. 

Matt Hennessee  14:34  
You know, it's, and so, therefore, it created a different behavior. And our belief is, if they go that's an answer to the heightened number of people who've been showing up. And then we are going to do our part as church folks, we're going to be praying on the street. We're going to be working with our local officials. We're going to be sitting down with the young demonstrators, finding out, saying 'listen, we hear you. We want to work with you. We want you, if you will, to work with us.'

David Brody  15:06  
Do you think it's bigger than just the police brutality issue when it comes to the folks that are causing the mayhem in Portland. It feels like the way it's been portrayed is that this is far left anarchy, that this is a bigger agenda. They want to tear down America as we know it and all of that. I mean, that's what we've heard. I don't know if that's what you're hearing as well, but it doesn't seem, in other words, I don't know, to me, if I were a peaceful protester, protesting the righteous cause of racial injustice, if you will, I would be pretty frustrated that some few hundred advocate anarchists or folks that are throwing in torching the place are totally diluting the message. And it's been totally counterproductive.

Matt Hennessee  15:50  
Yeah, I do think, David, that some of the message has been distracted by these acts. There's no question about that. I do believe that the issues on the street are bigger than police brutality. But I believe and I said this to a reporter of a different organization the other day. I wish my president and I said that I said the words just like this, I wish my president had called my governor, my mayor, and talked with them and listen to them about what they needed. And that the purpose of that call was to say, I want to help. Because, if that had happened, I think things could have been better. But when you make the decision from your own office, that what you need is the cavalry, then I think what you've done is set up a totally different process, and it creates what we've seen created on the street. And so I asked and my push is to say, let's get back to why this has happened. Let's get back to how public officials who I, by the way, have been one, so I've been a city manager. I've been a leader of police and fire. So I know how these things work and the better way they work is people communicating with one another. And I think that's really what we appeal for right now.

David Brody  17:13  
So, it's a wrap. Yeah, as we wrap up here, Pastor, and you kind of hinted at this, or you actually answered this at the beginning about the way forward here. From a Biblical perspective, I know we all need to be on our knees and praying, not just for the people of Portland, but for this country, for the kind of the soul of the nation, if you will. But what are some of--what's some of the work that needs to be done? I'm assuming it starts with some hard conversations and quite frankly, maybe within the church body itself, because we know racism is sinful, it's evil. It's from the devil. And I'm just wondering where you take that spiritual conversation?

Matt Hennessee  17:54  
No, I appreciate that. So we are saying to every religious body who will sign our pledge, our letter and pledge, and I'll be happy to send it to you, David, so you can see it. But we will spend the next two years working on training and development to help people understand how to tear down the walls of racism and injustice that exists in our religious organizations, that exist in our social and public administration and business organizations as well. We are literally saying to people, and I said this from my pulpit on Sunday as we're recording our services. And all of that is to say that we really need to pray about the streets of Portland and every street, in every city around this nation. And if we can't go down to the street, pray from home, or walk in the street and understand that the power of God this is our moment, and I believe this is a God moment. When God looks at us and says, 'do you have the answers?' And the respons is we do not. I don't care who we are, we do not have this answer. But I do believe that we must go down to the battlefield. And we must watch God's work. And we must be willing to be instruments, not to sit on the sidelines, but to literally get in the arena, and be willing to do our part. Not just to pray, but to act and to do everything that we can, in our homes, in our friendships in our work, to make sure that we're dismantling every shred of racism, every shred of injustice various.

David Brody  19:46  
Well, that's pastor Matt Hennessee here on The Pod's Honest Truth. Look, some final comments before we leave you. I don't even know where to begin, why don't we start with this and I alluded to it during the interview with the pastor. But look, you have to understand, right? So we have three distinct folks in Portland. We've got the peaceful protesters, they're pretty much out there day side into the early evening and that's wonderful. That's called peacefully assembling. It's in the Constitution, look it up. What's not in the Constitution is something called violently assembling. And that's exactly what those rioters and anarchists are doing, starting about eight, nine o'clock in the evening, and they go on all the way till two, three in the morning. And then of course, you have the federal agents that are they're trying to, oh, I don't know, wait for it, protect federal property and try to help folks, law enforcement in the area. Of course, the controversy there is that they may be indeed exacerbating the situation. And I don't think there's any question about that. But look, here's the problem. The media is focused on this idea that federal agents are making the situation worse. Well, what about maybe some ink given to the rioters and anarchists who say started this whole thing in the first place. It seems like there's a total pass when it comes to that aspect of it. And the media is horribly complicit in all of this. And why? Well, it's very simple. They talk about these rioters and anarchists like they are just peaceful protesters. And even if they don't call them peaceful, they call them protesters. In other words, they've lumped them in with the protesters that are already there. And that is disingenuous. That is lying. That is not true. That is journalistic malpractice at its finest. They are not peaceful protesters. They're not even protesters. They're criminals. They're rioters. They're anarchists. And here's the problem. You have peaceful protesters and these rioters and anarchists all together, many times around eight, nine, ten o'clock at night. In other words, remember I told you earlier about how these peaceful protesters will start to go home? Well, many of them do, but many of them stay, they sing, they chant, they are, they're peaceful, but the problem is, they're hanging around rioters and anarchists. And so what happens is, is that the media decides, well, you know what, hey, there's some people chanting and singing, so they're all protesters. No, they're not. Those folks that are still hanging around at eight, nine, ten o'clock at night that are peaceful or indeed peaceful. The problem is, the rioters and anarchists are not and so, guess what, the media decides to lump them all together, and we have a false narrative in this country. It's a disservice. It's wrong. Shame on the media. That's The Pod's Honest Truth. Until next time, America.